Image courtesy ec.europa.eu |
These claims have been floated extensively on social media, although in the case of Kelly on Twitter only, as his Facebook account has been suspended because he was using it to peddle misinformation.
Let's start with Bob Katter. Media reports circulating say that he claimed in a speech on Sunday 21st November in Cairns that several of his staff had died or been made severely unwell as a result of Covid vaccine administration. They are based on audio in which he stated that there were "eight or nine people" in his office who "had died or had been badly affected" by the vaccine.
On questioning, his staff insisted that what Mr Katter had said was that there had been "eight or nine cases come into our office" and it was not people "in" his office - obviously a complete misunderstanding. One can assume that the electoral office would have been put out of commission if this had actually happened. I don't know how many people work there, but "eight or nine" sounds more than a little suss....
The actual audio of his speech indicates that he said "into" and not "in", but is sufficiently unclear to allow for both interpretations. Let's allow Bob the charitable interpretation that he meant the eight or nine cases were were constituents in his Federal electorate of Kennedy, which covers 567,377 square kilometres and had an enrolment of 107,644 in 2019.
Now let's assume Bob was indeed referring to Kennedy constituents and that his statement that eight or nine cases of adverse reactions had occurred is correct, (although he didn't furnish any proof), and look at figures for that electorate.
I couldn't find a breakdown of vaccination take-up for Kennedy, but if you average Cairns (85% first dose) and Charters Towers (73% first dose) you come up with a figure of 79%. The only other large population centre in the electorate is Mount Isa, which is pretty much a mine town. There was nothing on-line that I could find about vaccination rates in the Isa, but unless the culture has changed since I lived there in the nineties, you can bet your boots that both the mines and the various government agencies, both indigenous and otherwise, are vigorously pushing vaccinations.
That 79% of 107,644 gives you 85,038 vaccinated. So if Bob is referring to his constituents, that's an adverse reaction rate of 0.015835, or one adverse reaction in about a thousand, on the lower end of what is typical of reactions to most vaccines, as a visit to the Australian Immunisation Handbook website reveals. In the case of the Pertussis vaccination, administered routinely to Australian infants, the incidence of adverse local reactions is approximately 10%. That's about ten times the rate for Covid vaccines. Why isn't Bob Katter getting excited about Pertussis vaccination?
Image courtesy UN ilibrary |
Then we look at Craig Kelly. He's made so many bizarre claims about Covid (relating both to treatments and vaccination) that it'd difficult to address them all, but how about this one -
"The vaccines are not sufficiently effective, and they're not sufficiently safe" which you can hear at about 1:30 seconds into an unsolicited video he sent me from a speech he made at a rally in Melbourne last weekend. (This is despite the fact that I have messaged him on a number of occasions requesting that he cease sending unsolicited texts to my phone and removing the number from the UAP database).
Let's look at the first of these two statements - the first one that the vaccines are not effective. (I'm not sure what "sufficiently" means in this context). There are any number of published studies around the issue of vaccine effectiveness, but this one is very recent, and very representative. It reports -
Findings
The highest VE estimates against new cases in >16 year-old individuals, for all outcomes, were reached at the 15-21 day period after the second dose, ranging between 97.7% for deaths and 98.6% for severe/critical disease. VE estimates of the 14-20 day period after the first dose ranged between 54.3% for infection and 77.3% for severe/critical disease.
Interpretation
The *BNT162 vaccine is highly effective in preventing new SARS-CoV-2 cases. Among >80 year-old individuals, high effectiveness develops more slowly. In breakthrough cases, vaccination reduces complications and death.
Kelly has been pushing Ivermectin as a treatment, and demonstrating outrage that it is not prescribed. (Being of a cynical mindset, I do wonder if that concern has anything to do with his patron buying up copious quantities of the drug - but I digress).
Here is just one summary from a recent trial of Ivermectin conducted in June and published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases. There are many more studies which came to the same conclusion -
In a retrospective study, a single dose of 200 ug/kg of ivermectin was explored for its effect on patients with severe COVID-19. In congruence with this evidence, no improvement in microbiological and clinical outcomes was found in the ivermectin group compared with the control group.
Similarly, in another randomised, double-blind clinical trial, ivermectin (administered at a dose of 300 ug/kg of body weight per day for 5 days) compared with placebo did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms among adults with mild COVID-19 infection. The evidence is of very low certainty for the effects of ivermectin in reducing mortality, need for hospitalisation, and reduction of time for clinical improvement in COVID-19 infection.
It's obvious, that when it comes to disinformation, both these politicians have talent.
It would be funny, if it wasn't dangerous. It kills people.
And Kelly's and Katter's claims - frankly bullshit...
*Pfizer
Comments closed.
16 comments:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04380701
Results not published.....trial not finishing until 2023.
440 subjects....huge trial.
Clinical trials like these are being carried out all over the world, and have been since the introduction of the various vaccines, which is obviously a good thing. As I pointed out above, the adverse reactions to the various Covid vaccines are typical of vaccines across the board.
Suggest you check the CDC page to referred me to, which states inter alia - We know what it takes to prevent the spread of COVID-19. CDC recommends people follow prevention strategies such as wearing a mask in public indoor settings in areas of substantial or high community transmission, washing your hands frequently, and physically distancing from others. CDC also recommends that everyone 5 years and older protect themselves from COVID-19 by getting fully vaccinated. CDC encourages a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose for those who are eligible.
See - https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s1126-B11-529-omicron.html
I'm inclined to take their advice over Craig Kelly's...
What I send you is mainly links to TGA. In case you don't realise one is different to the other.
I don't take Kelly's advice either except to check his sources. There is enough doubt out there for me to WAIT for the studies to be completed before medicating for an ailment that may never effect my life. I do take umbrage at being forced to take the medication on the pretext that I am in some way a risk to someone who has already been medicated and should therefore feel safe in the presence of another healthy human being.
What I send you is mainly links to TGA.
Not so.
You sent a link to an outline of a clinical trail incorporated on the public health website of the CDC. The CDC (Centre for Disease Control and Prevention) is the national public health agency of the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services.
The TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) is the medicine and therapeutic regulatory agency of the Australian Government. As part of the Department of Health, the TGA regulates the quality, supply and advertising of medicines, pathology devices, medical devices, blood products and most other therapeutics.
What both agencies have in common is their responsibility for protecting the health of citizens of both countries from a range of threats, including novel viruses such as Covid-19.
They are simply doing their job.
I do take umbrage at being forced to take the medication on the pretext that I am in some way a risk to someone who has already been medicated and should therefore feel safe in the presence of another healthy human being.
You can take as much umbrage as you like but there is no "pretext". Nobody is forcing you to be vaccinated, but your unvaccinated status is however, a real threat to everyone else, as you are more likely to acquire and transmit the virus to others than someone who is fully vaccinated.
The 10% or so (at the moment) of vaccination holdouts are simply assisting the spread of the virus.
They are spooked by two realities. The first is that no vaccine can offer a 100% cast iron guarantee of protection against breakthrough infections, but simply improves the odds. This is not news, and has been understood for decades.
The second reality is that occasionally vaccines have adverse reactions. Again, this has been understood for decades, but millions of them are administered annually to children to protect against infections such as measles, mumps, pertussis, chickenpox, diphtheria, Haemophilus influenza type B (Hib) hepatitis, meningococcal disease, and pneumococcal infections. None of this is controversial.
Some politicians have seen an opportunity in the hardships and risks created by Covid-19 and are cynically using the fear created to maintain power.
They should be condemned, as this is a medical, not a political issue, and should be left to the medical experts, not the politicians, to manage.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04380701
Results not published.....trial not finishing until 2023.
440 subjects....huge trial.
"What I send you is mainly links to TGA.
Not so" In general I quote TGA Bobby. This was a one off and you haven't explained your view well enough to make me rethink my position.
Name one other serum being trialed as a vaccine that has been linked to 682 deaths in Australia where the record keepers have gone to the lengths they have here to reduce that number to 9 in order to continue the trial on forced subjects.
If you think coercion is not in play here to force fit and healthy people with a 0.7% chance of infection, to be part of a vaccination trial for a disease that more than 99% survive, then your ability to rationalise is in serious doubt.
"you are more likely to acquire and transmit the virus to others than someone who is fully vaccinated. The 10% or so (at the moment) of vaccination holdouts are simply assisting the spread of the virus."...opinion, Bobby. At present I know of three people (extended family) who were fully vaccinated, who ended up in dire straits. One ended up with a brain bleed and an urgent RFDS flight to Melbourne to have his skull drained, and is still very unwell. The other two are currently bedridden have been infected with "the Virus" that they were protected from and are not doing well. Daily monitoring by nursing staff...not hospitalised. All contacts isolated requiring testing and four toddlers in the mix.
And you advocate for the "vaccination" and actually believe that people that are healthy and have not been injected are more of a danger to others. Considering "others" are the vaccinated group, does that not strike you as illogical? I don't do the seasonal flu jab either. The only time since returning from SEA that I have had any indication of the flu was immediately after the fluvax two years running 2002 and 2003 when I ended up in bed for 3 or 4 days crook as a dog...recently checked records. Of course I believed it when they said you can't get the flu from the vax. 🤔🙄
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ca540f26bb5e642a9500adae431c6a48d624654d4bcfae1affa7766f32f73fb7.jpg
😁
Name one other serum being trialed as a vaccine that has been linked to 682 deaths in Australia
That is completely false.
See -https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/meme-misuses-australian-data-to-falsely-claim-covid-19-vaccine-deaths/
Facebook memes are about as reliable as anecdotes like this one - At present I know of three people (extended family) who were fully vaccinated, who ended up in dire straits. One ended up with a brain bleed and an urgent RFDS flight to Melbourne to have his skull drained, and is still very unwell. The other two are currently bedridden have been infected with "the Virus" that they were protected from and are not doing well. Daily monitoring by nursing staff...not hospitalised. All contacts isolated requiring testing and four toddlers in the mix.
I could counter by telling you that my large extended family (over 60 individuals) have not had any side effects expect for a sore arm after double vaccination during the last six months. I won't, because anecdotal information doesn't cut it in the real world.
Considering "others" are the vaccinated group, does that not strike you as illogical?
"Others" are the whole population, whether vaccinated or not. You are stuck with the notion that vaccination is 100% effective. It isn't, but it does help. To follow your "logic" to its ridiculous extreme, compulsory wearing of seat belts should be abandoned, because occasionally, people are killed in motor vehicle accidents despite wearing seat belts.
That comic strip omits three very important facts.
1.Vaccination slows the spread of the virus.
2.Vaccination decreases the severity of the infection, and substantially lowers hospital admissions.
3.The inoculations being used have about the same rate of adverse reactions as other vaccines.
There is another factor of course.
In any group of 100 people, there will always be 5 - 10% of individuals who, because they are thick, or simply contrarian, exhibit anti-social behaviours. I learned this as a teacher. These individuals caused more problems in a day to themselves and those around them, than the other 90% did in a month.
The same was true in the army, particularly on active service. Given that the rate of vaccination in Australia is currently between 80 and 90% first dose, the Gaussian curve applies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
Listen to this bloke. He has recovered (mostly) from Covid, and has built a laboratory to study it. Very interesting. You might even learn something if you can keep an open mind -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UzOav3x8Q0
Go to 13:00 into the video, to hear what he has to say about vaccination.
LOL. "I caught Covid. Wasn't diagnosed. Retrospectively diagnosed by my laboratory. I've got long Covid".
Even LOLer :Victorian cases soar again" - diagnosed by the non-diagnostic PCR test. And no one actually with any symptoms.
Just too funny so early in the morning. Shall watch more later and come back to ridicule youir naivity.
You have a perverted sense of humour if you believe that a virus which so far has killed 777000 in the USA, from where the bulk of the political misinformation has emerged, is funny.
As for naivety, your understanding of the term is on a par with your attempt to spell it.
You sent a link to an outline of a clinical trail incorporated on the public health website of the CDC. Your line Bob, it's trial.
Anyway, as I said, laughable video. 2 minutes of research show perfesser Nicholson to be -
https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/people/prof-jeremy-nicholson/
para 3 in case you missed it.
And what is "Future Food Systems"? Here's their annual report -
https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/AR2020-21_FINAL_M.pdf
A university department pursuing the green ideology of plant based foods, renewables and Indigenous enterprise.
I thought you crowed about your research skills?
Almost forgot, excess deaths in the US? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
There aren't any so let's fudge it.
There aren't any so let's fudge it.
So explain why (as examples) there were 37.2% excess deaths on 11th April 2020 and 43.2% on 16th January 2121, using the dashboard facility on the page you linked to - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Either you can't read a graph, or you don't understand the concept of "excess deaths" or both....
So, on 363 days there weren't any excess deaths. And nothing outside the normal variations over an extended period. Oh, and 2121 won't be here for another century. 16th January 2121!!
Sack your proof reader.
So, on 363 days there weren't any excess deaths.
Wrong.
Go back and look at the graph.
For the period displayed, excess deaths were recorded from 28th March 2020 through to 6th November 2021. That's 365 + 127 days, a total of 492 days so far. And the deaths continue, particularly in the states where Republican administrations are pushing back against health mandates - https://khn.org/morning-breakout/covid-deaths-skew-higher-than-ever-in-red-states/
On the 9th January 2021, deaths were 87,000+ when the averaged expected rate was 60000+.
You can't fudge that.
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