Unapologetic insolence from an aging subversive

Unapologetic insolence from an aging subversive

Saturday, 3 July 2021

Symmetry

 


My youngest daughter has been left in limbo in the UK after the recent National Cabinet decision to cut the cap of returning Australians by 50%.

She is a very well-organised young person and had booked her return airfare at the expiry of her two-year working visa. She had vacated her accommodation and resigned her job in Bristol to correspond with the expiry of her visa.

Now she is vulnerable, at the mercy of her friends. 

She paid about four times for the return fare as it cost her to travel to the UK in June 2019, before Covid was around. 

Her dream of working in England, and travelling all over the continent, financed by working two jobs in Brisbane for two years turned to dust. She got as far as Iceland and Portugal, and that was it.

Now, her government has prevented her from coming home.

Consider the strange historical symmetry in this situation remembering that fifty-two years ago, I was forced by my government to leave my home and fight as a conscript in a civil war on foreign soil.

And on each occasion, the government in power is the Coalition.

For the second time in a little over fifty years, young Australians are convenient political collateral.

So much for the Liberal Party's regard for personal freedom......


Comments closed.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Until you got to the word "consider" you had my attention and sympathy for your daughter, although she was warned some time ago that it may be wise to return to her country of birth and chose not to. The situations you mention...hers and yours are incompatible and you merely seek to push that empty barrow further along the road. Poor Bobby and now poor daughter.
You were conscripted into the armed forces and from that moment were duty bound to do what you were told and travelling overseas to Vietnam was expected of you. You went without requesting a posting to another unit. Some might think that was tantamount to volunteering, I guess.
Your daughter on the other hand traveled totally voluntarily and ignored the warning signs telling her to come back home, while she was able, to avoid the situation she is now in. On second thoughts my sympathy has diminished somewhat, after your comparison sparked deeper thought. I do however hope your wife is faring better.

1735099 said...

although she was warned some time ago that it may be wise to return to her country of birth and chose not to.
"Warned?" By whom?
She stayed on to work out her visa (which cost her 2774 UK pounds - $5080 Au) and in the hope that the pandemic would pass. She assumed, wrongly as it turned out, that as an Australian citizen, she could return home when she chose. She did not "volunteer" to stay, just as I did not "volunteer" to go.
You went without requesting a posting to another unit.
Wrong. I requested a posting to 4 RAR which had returned to Oz in May 1969.
You have a very bizarre understanding of the word "volunteer".
Look it up - Volunteer - A person who freely enrolls for military service rather than being conscripted, especially a member of a force formed by voluntary enrolment and distinct from the regular army. (Online dictionary)

Anonymous said...

Being made aware of the likelihood of certain events is being warned. It seems to me that Australians in general were made aware very early. If as you claim your daughter was not then perhaps that was a failing on your part. As you also state she chose to to stay, assuming the pandemic would pass therefore she was aware and took the risk.
I did not say your daughter volunteered to stay and I did not say you volunteered to go. I said she volunteered to travel initially, and in your case I said that your lack of attempts to leave Seven prior to leaving for Vietnam, might be thought of by some as tantamount to volunteering. You are fixated on military use of the word "volunteer".

"voluntarily
In a voluntary manner; of one's own motion; without being moved, influenced, or impelled by others; spontaneously; freely.
adv. In a voluntary manner; of one's own will; spontaneously."

"Wrong. I requested a posting to 4 RAR which had returned to Oz in May 1969."
I am aware that you selected 4 RAR as a preference and failed in that endeavour to avoid service in Vietnam. You were posted to Seven who were preparing for their trip. You make no mention of any further attempts to avoid your service in Vietnam and spent months in full on training to achieve what you claim to be the most fearful time in your life, 10 months in the service of your country, on full pay with leave entitlements. I guess that means you didn't work as a volunteer. Although some would believe you were resigned to the inevitability of the outcome and accepted it voluntarily.

1735099 said...

I did not say your daughter volunteered to stay
What does this statement mean? -
she was warned some time ago that it may be wise to return to her country of birth and chose not to
And
and I did not say you volunteered to go
What does this statement mean? -
You went without requesting a posting to another unit. Some might think that was tantamount to volunteering, I guess.
Stop digging...

Anonymous said...


You said your daughter volunteered to stay, Bobby. "She stayed on to work out her visa (which cost her 2774 UK pounds - $5080 Au) and in the hope that the pandemic would pass. She assumed, wrongly as it turned out,". "she was warned some time ago that it may be wise to return to her country of birth and chose not to" was my understanding of what you wrote, but in other words.

"You went without requesting a posting to another unit. Some might think that was tantamount to volunteering, I guess." That is what it is...it does not say you actually volunteered. It says some might think you volunteered. Comprehension problems? Has it suddenly dawned on you that by choosing to take no further action on the idea of avoiding service, you volunteered by omission?

1735099 said...

You said your daughter volunteered to stay, Bobby.
How does someone "volunteer to stay" when they buy a ticket to fly home three months in advance, as she did?
Has it suddenly dawned on you that by choosing to take no further action on the idea of avoiding service, you volunteered by omission?
The only realisation I have come to after reading your posts on the subject is that you have a problem with understanding plain English.
Here are three very simple questions -
1. Did I volunteer to join the army?
2. Did I volunteer for infantry?
3. Did I volunteer to be sent to Vietnam?
It says some might think you volunteered.
That's about as logical as saying that somebody who went for a drive, had an accident, and finished up in hospital "volunteered" to get hurt because they went for that drive.
I've taught year one kids who can see the logical fallacy in that.

Anonymous said...

"How does someone "volunteer to stay" when they buy a ticket to fly home three months in advance, as she did?" Easy Robert...in your words "She stayed on to work out her visa (which cost her 2774 UK pounds - $5080 Au) and in the hope that the pandemic would pass." She knew but decided to stay on.
"1. Did I volunteer to join the army?
2. Did I volunteer for infantry?
3. Did I volunteer to be sent to Vietnam?
Collectively the answer is no.
Question for you ...once you got to Seven RAR did you take any affirmative action to avoid service in Vietnam?
"That's about as logical as saying that somebody who went for a drive, had an accident, and finished up in hospital "volunteered" to get hurt because they went for that drive."
That analogy has no similarity to finding yourself in a situation with obvious ramifications and taking no action to better your position. You did nothing once you got to Seven that would help you avoid going to Vietnam...volunteered by omission. You failed in the early stages to achieve your aim and gave up. Accepted like a sheep.
I've had grandchildren like that at two years of age and even they learned to face a challenge without surrendering by the time they were at school.

1735099 said...

She knew but decided to stay on.
"Knew" what?
She isn't Nostradamus.
You did nothing once you got to Seven that would help you avoid going to Vietnam...volunteered by omission.
Now that is funny.
You're getting into the theatre of the absurd...

Anonymous said...

She knew that, on the available advice, it may be wise to head for Australia. In your own words she stayed in the hope the pandemic would pass.
"You're getting into the theatre of the absurd.." If that is the case Robert, I have waited a long time to join you in a realm you mastered many years ago.

1735099 said...

I have waited a long time to join you in a realm you mastered many years ago.
That realm was pioneered by a government that legislated to send young men to fight in a foreign country prompted by a nonsense meme (the Domino Theory) that was discredited in 1975. Now a government of the same political persuasion won't allow Australian citizens to return to their country of birth.
To call it "absurd" is charitable...

Anonymous said...

So the use of young men conscripted during WWII and who fought at Kokoda was okay?

You have skin in the game in both your personal complaints...you were sent overseas, albeit without so much as a whimper of protest, to fight in a war you disagreed with, and your daughter has had her return to Australia postponed temporarily, due to a poor decision she made to remain overseas to work out her visa, when all indications were that remaining overseas may become problematic.

Does the complaining never stop?

1735099 said...

So the use of young men conscripted during WWII and who fought at Kokoda was okay?
Australia was under existential threat in WW2. It wasn't during the war in Vietnam.
In addition, conscripts (militia) served in Australian mandated territory. During the war in Vietnam, conscripts fought on foreign soil.
Unlike what applied in the UK, no Australian conscripts fought in Korea.
albeit without so much as a whimper of protest
So you were there, were you, in my subunit? You wouldn't know.
to fight in a war you disagreed with As did many other Nashos.
I suggest you read some history.
Begin with memoirs written by Nashos. A Jungle Circus - Mike Towers, would be a good start. Then read Dapin's two works on National Service, and his Ph.D. -https://www.unsworks.unsw.edu.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay/unsworks_54761/UNSWORKS
It's always a good idea to know what you're talking about.
your personal complaints
Not complaints - history, as in a chronicle of facts.
Facts are always more impactful than mythology.

1735099 said...

Here's a quote from Tower's book -
Australia's introduction to Vietnam was politically motivated and surreptitiously lap-dog in character. Later the Government found how difficult it was to get disentangled. Politicians found the necessity of Australia's involvement exceedingly hard to justify at the time, and history has ensured justification remains impossible.
Mike Towers - A jungle Circus - Allen & Unwin - Sydney - 1999, p 227
Towers was a Nasho who served in 4RAR in 1969.

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